Should Maori language be compulsory in school

I think it should be. It is after all the official language of NZ, and it would help immensely to improve race relations and understanding of different cultures and customs. Also it is scientifically proven that learning a second languag form young age improves the density of grey matter in the area of the brain which processes information.
But the pessimist in me says that the majority of redneck parents aren't yet ready for the big step forward and it's probably not gonna happen in my lifetime.

Should we also teach New Zealand sign language?

Yep, it's an official language of NZ, too.

In my mind, we should teach either one of the two official languages of New Zealand. If the student wants to take up the other, well good... they can speak three languages then.

There's three.

I agree that we should teach them but (and Psalter would know this) how would this fit into the curriculum? Would it require something else being left out?

ChelseaT wrote:There's three.

I agree that we should teach them but (and Psalter would know this) how would this fit into the curriculum? Would it require something else being left out?

Me being pedantic again... there are only two official languages in NZ; Maori and NZSL. English is an unofficial language but the medium of instruction and law. This is specifically mentioned in the New Zealand curriculum as released by the New Zealand government.

http://nzcurriculum.tki.org.nz/The-New-Zealand-Curriculum/Official-languages

As to teaching them, we can teach them implicitly rather than explicitly.... have the children pick them up from song, instructions, and experience rather than traditional rote learning of language.

For me, yes.

The way it is atm you learn up to 3rd form.

They teach culture, language, history and pronounciation.

All being vital for living comfortably in New Zealand.

No one lives a life void of Maori language, whether it be names, place names, street names etc...

To pronounce something correctly gives it respect. To feel comfortable on a marae during various ceremonies is important.

Usually schools have a marae stay at some time in their lives. I think this is awesome too.

Yip I agree, and sign language too.
I think people often fear what is different. So I think kids should definitely be exposed to different cultures and languages in general. There are some seriously ignorant and intolerant adults out there, so I think it's needed.

Yes, most definitely.

Nothing need be left out, if te reo Maori were used across contexts. It would at a richness to all subjects.

Because I can't say what I think any better, I will just agree with the first couple of posts.

I'll say no... just to represent the inbred "deliverance" rednecks.

I agree that it should be implicitly taught, as Psalter has already mentioned, but after children reach High School, it should be their choice as to whether or not they wish to continue to learn Te Reo.

To pronounce something correctly gives it respect. To feel comfortable on a marae during various ceremonies is important.

Usually schools have a marae stay at some time in their lives. I think this is awesome too.

Regarding the correct pronunciation, I personally believe that there are many who are too rigid, and because of this will criticise anyone who mispronounces a word even slightly. Correction is fine, but criticism is not, AFAIAC. As well as that, there are the various Dialects to take into consideration as well.

Yes, many schools do have a Marae stay - all four of my children did whilst they were at Intermediate School, and to be quite honest it was a very expensive overnight stay, and cost more than the 3 day camp. For that reason, I was not impressed.

On another note, regarding Maori Language in schools, I believe that it is something that needs to be balanced. I personally found it rather insulting, and felt awful for the Grandparents, when attending end of year Prizegivings and Assemblies when every song was sung in Te Reo, and a lot of what was spoken by the Principal was also, without providing an English translation afterwards. As I looked around the hall, I could see a lot of people, even Maori, who were distinctly uncomfortable by this.

Tikva wrote:On another note, regarding Maori Language in schools, I believe that it is something that needs to be balanced. I personally found it rather insulting, and felt awful for the Grandparents, when attending end of year Prizegivings and Assemblies when every song was sung in Te Reo, and a lot of what was spoken by the Principal was also, without providing an English translation afterwards. As I looked around the hall, I could see a lot of people, even Maori, who were distinctly uncomfortable by this.

Well ideally it would not come to that. I was about to post in here and advocate the view that, if we really do want to teach another language, perhaps we should teach a more widely spoken, useful one? However, when I considered the state of race relations in this country (one need only look at the pakeha thread in SC at the moment) it suddenly became apparent to me that there might be little more useful than seeking to improve those by teaching Maori in schools.

That said, it should strictly be limited to primary school and intermediate. If you start ramming it down kids' throats at high school, they're not going to have a bar of it. Education is a dangerous road to walk, and I think politicians and parents of today have trouble understanding that. When you "educate" kids about something at secondary school level, they're just as likely to reject it outright (particularly if they're being forced to do it) as they are to actually learn something from it.

At high school kids are also beginning to express fully formed opinions of the world around them, as well as their academic likes and dislikes. If a child decides they don't like Maori as a language, then they're not going to benefit from being forced to do it. I also fear, at that point, that it could cause more division than harmony. Consider that any teacher of Maori, on my presumption (from experience) that teachers are more often narrow minded than not, could make life hell for a student who didn't like the language, seeing as the issue of race is intrinsically involved. At high school, as it is, I was charged by teachers on a number of occasions with being racist on the basis that:

A) I did not think Te Reo Maori was a particularly nice sounding language.
B) I did not think Maori should have special representation in national government.

Frankly, dissenting opinions are not accepted in high school; people, like me, can suffer for having them at such a young age, and yet so many people hold them at such an age. "But Jesus, that happens with any subject!" This is true, but the difference here is that race is suddenly involved. Children who don't like the language aren't able to stop doing it, this upsets parents, many of those parents will be racist (many will not, but they're not the ones to be concerned about), said parents will turn it into a race war, and teachers of those students who simply don't like the language will turn their dissatisfaction with it into a racial issue.

Politics exists at high school. Earlier on, it doesn't. This is the distinction that needs to be made.

Psalter wrote:

ChelseaT wrote:There's three.

I agree that we should teach them but (and Psalter would know this) how would this fit into the curriculum? Would it require something else being left out?

Me being pedantic again... there are only two official languages in NZ; Maori and NZSL. English is an unofficial language but the medium of instruction and law. This is specifically mentioned in the New Zealand curriculum as released by the New Zealand government.

http://nzcurriculum.tki.org.nz/The-New-Zealand-Curriculum/Official-languages

As to teaching them, we can teach them implicitly rather than explicitly.... have the children pick them up from song, instructions, and experience rather than traditional rote learning of language.

this is an argument me and rach have ahd before about the officialness of english as language in new zealand

the government on official documents
http://www.beehive.govt.nz/?q=node/25408

There are two official languages in New Zealand: English and Mâori. The NZSL Bill will not affect the status of these languages.
Mâori Deaf report that official recognition of NZSL will increase the likelihood of their being able to use NZSL at hui, marae events, and tangi, and therefore increase their access to Mâori language and culture, including whakapapa.

though I'd neevr back wikipedia in an official argument

Until 1987, English was New Zealand's only official language, and remains predominant in most settings; Māori became an official language under the 1987 Māori Language Act and New Zealand Sign Language under the 2006 New Zealand Sign Language Act.[83] The two official spoken languages are also the most widely used; English is spoken by 98% of the population and Māori by 4.1%.[7] Samoan is the most widely spoken non-official language (2.3%),[v] followed by French, Hindi, Yue and Northern Chinese.[7

Tikva wrote:I agree that it should be implicitly taught, as Psalter has already mentioned, but after children reach High School, it should be their choice as to whether or not they wish to continue to learn Te Reo.

To pronounce something correctly gives it respect. To feel comfortable on a marae during various ceremonies is important.

Usually schools have a marae stay at some time in their lives. I think this is awesome too.

Regarding the correct pronunciation, I personally believe that there are many who are too rigid, and because of this will criticise anyone who mispronounces a word even slightly. Correction is fine, but criticism is not, AFAIAC. As well as that, there are the various Dialects to take into consideration as well.

Yes, many schools do have a Marae stay - all four of my children did whilst they were at Intermediate School, and to be quite honest it was a very expensive overnight stay, and cost more than the 3 day camp. For that reason, I was not impressed.

On another note, regarding Maori Language in schools, I believe that it is something that needs to be balanced. I personally found it rather insulting, and felt awful for the Grandparents, when attending end of year Prizegivings and Assemblies when every song was sung in Te Reo, and a lot of what was spoken by the Principal was also, without providing an English translation afterwards. As I looked around the hall, I could see a lot of people, even Maori, who were distinctly uncomfortable by this.

It's good to be rigid. My surname is NOT hard to pronounce right, yet people do so all the time (they pronounce my first name wrong all the time too). Correction is education. My (blue eyed, blonde) 'Aunty' taught my Anti-Maori mother how to pronounce her childrens names correctly. Mahuta, Hera, Iraihi and Erana. She learnt within time.

Marae stay cost more? That's a shocker as schools often use Marae as a cheap alternatives to the usual camps.

It's good to be rigid. My surname is NOT hard to pronounce right, yet people do so all the time (they pronounce my first name wrong all the time too). Correction is education. My (blue eyed, blonde) 'Aunty' taught my Anti-Maori mother how to pronounce her childrens names correctly. Mahuta, Hera, Iraihi and Erana. She learnt within time.

Marae stay cost more? That's a shocker as schools often use Marae as a cheap alternatives to the usual camps.

I think we will have to agree to disagree when it comes to being rigid, Waireka.

Regarding the Marae stay, naturally I cannot speak for other schools, but at the Intermediate my children went to, it was expensive. Last year I was informed that the Marae visit was not an 'optional' attendance event, and with that being the year that my twins were there, it was going to cost me $100 ($50 each). I spoke to the Principal about this directly, the result of which was that I refused to pay for them to attend. It wasn't that I didn't want them to, as my children are part Maori, and I believe it is important for them to learn about their culture, language, etc. But not at that price.

Jesus Christ wrote:
Well ideally it would not come to that. I was about to post in here and advocate the view that, if we really do want to teach another language, perhaps we should teach a more widely spoken, useful one? However, when I considered the state of race relations in this country (one need only look at the pakeha thread in SC at the moment) it suddenly became apparent to me that there might be little more useful than seeking to improve those by teaching Maori in schools.

That said, it should strictly be limited to primary school and intermediate. If you start ramming it down kids' throats at high school, they're not going to have a bar of it. Education is a dangerous road to walk, and I think politicians and parents of today have trouble understanding that. When you "educate" kids about something at secondary school level, they're just as likely to reject it outright (particularly if they're being forced to do it) as they are to actually learn something from it.

At high school kids are also beginning to express fully formed opinions of the world around them, as well as their academic likes and dislikes. If a child decides they don't like Maori as a language, then they're not going to benefit from being forced to do it. I also fear, at that point, that it could cause more division than harmony. Consider that any teacher of Maori, on my presumption (from experience) that teachers are more often narrow minded than not, could make life hell for a student who didn't like the language, seeing as the issue of race is intrinsically involved. At high school, as it is, I was charged by teachers on a number of occasions with being racist on the basis that:

A) I did not think Te Reo Maori was a particularly nice sounding language.
B) I did not think Maori should have special representation in national government.

Frankly, dissenting opinions are not accepted in high school; people, like me, can suffer for having them at such a young age, and yet so many people hold them at such an age. "But Jesus, that happens with any subject!" This is true, but the difference here is that race is suddenly involved. Children who don't like the language aren't able to stop doing it, this upsets parents, many of those parents will be racist (many will not, but they're not the ones to be concerned about), said parents will turn it into a race war, and teachers of those students who simply don't like the language will turn their dissatisfaction with it into a racial issue.

Politics exists at high school. Earlier on, it doesn't. This is the distinction that needs to be made.

Well said, JC.

No, I do not support compulsory Maori Language studies. Regardless of status. The reality is, effectively, it is almost a dead Language. With the best will in the World, this is not going to change.

Even if it was, and over time, most New Zealanders garnered some proficiency in it, what is the point? A small Country in the middle of nowhere, with a tongue not understood anywhere else.

Should a second Language be compulsory at some stage of the curriculum? Yes, I believe it should. Principally, because it would make people more understanding of other cultures. Should Maori be amongst the offerings? I see no reason for it not to be.

Like it or otherwise, English, in its many guises, is the Language of International Converse. There is no sign of that slowing.

Politics exists at high school. Earlier on, it doesn't. This is the distinction that needs to be made.

With the utmost respect (and joy) I must inform you that this is the only truly ignorant (for lack of a better word) statement I have ever observed you make.

When you have Maori students at school informing you (as happened to a colleague) that because you are white, you have no understanding of how to connect with them (7 yo)... or you have Pakeha children saying that there is no need to learn Maori because it is not used anywhere else in the world (11 yo)... well, you start to see that there is politics.

It doesn't matter that the politics are not personally informed... or that they may be founded in ignorance. Aren't most political decisions the same in the adult world?

Your comment is akin to those that have offended you so much in the past... age decides little in the intellectual realm beside exposure to experience.

Psalter wrote:

Politics exists at high school. Earlier on, it doesn't. This is the distinction that needs to be made.

With the utmost respect (and joy) I must inform you that this is the only truly ignorant (for lack of a better word) statement I have ever observed you make.

When you have Maori students at school informing you (as happened to a colleague) that because you are white, you have no understanding of how to connect with them (7 yo)... or you have Pakeha children saying that there is no need to learn Maori because it is not used anywhere else in the world (11 yo)... well, you start to see that there is politics.

It doesn't matter that the politics are not personally informed... or that they may be founded in ignorance. Aren't most political decisions the same in the adult world?

Your comment is akin to those that have offended you so much in the past... age decides little in the intellectual realm beside exposure to experience.

Touche`, sir. I recoil from that statement.

Jesus Christ wrote:

Psalter wrote:

Politics exists at high school. Earlier on, it doesn't. This is the distinction that needs to be made.

With the utmost respect (and joy) I must inform you that this is the only truly ignorant (for lack of a better word) statement I have ever observed you make.

When you have Maori students at school informing you (as happened to a colleague) that because you are white, you have no understanding of how to connect with them (7 yo)... or you have Pakeha children saying that there is no need to learn Maori because it is not used anywhere else in the world (11 yo)... well, you start to see that there is politics.

It doesn't matter that the politics are not personally informed... or that they may be founded in ignorance. Aren't most political decisions the same in the adult world?

Your comment is akin to those that have offended you so much in the past... age decides little in the intellectual realm beside exposure to experience.

Touche`, sir. I recoil from that statement.

Bitches don't know about my é.

master5o1 wrote:

Jesus Christ wrote:

Psalter wrote:

Politics exists at high school. Earlier on, it doesn't. This is the distinction that needs to be made.

With the utmost respect (and joy) I must inform you that this is the only truly ignorant (for lack of a better word) statement I have ever observed you make.

When you have Maori students at school informing you (as happened to a colleague) that because you are white, you have no understanding of how to connect with them (7 yo)... or you have Pakeha children saying that there is no need to learn Maori because it is not used anywhere else in the world (11 yo)... well, you start to see that there is politics.

It doesn't matter that the politics are not personally informed... or that they may be founded in ignorance. Aren't most political decisions the same in the adult world?

Your comment is akin to those that have offended you so much in the past... age decides little in the intellectual realm beside exposure to experience.

Touche`, sir. I recoil from that statement.

Bitches don't know about my é.

I know about it. I just couldn't be bothered.

Blank

Lynz wrote:No, I do not support compulsory Maori Language studies. Regardless of status. The reality is, effectively, it is almost a dead Language. With the best will in the World, this is not going to change
Even if it was, and over time, most New Zealanders garnered some proficiency in it, what is the point? A small Country in the middle of nowhere, with a tongue not understood anywhere else.

Should a second Language be compulsory at some stage of the curriculum? Yes, I believe it should. Principally, because it would make people more understanding of other cultures. Should Maori be amongst the offerings? I see no reason for it not to be.

Like it or otherwise, English, in its many guises, is the Language of International Converse. There is no sign of that slowing.

Correction... Maori USED to be an almost dead language... thanks to the "no native speak allowed in schools" rule. But it has crawled out of the grave and is becoming very much a huge part of todays new Zealand. So yeah, with all the will in the world it has changed.The point is the uniqueness it gives this small country in the middle of the pacific... why is it such a hard task to want to be a world apart from everywhere else?

English will always be a part of this country... unfortunately (If the french had of arrived sooner we may have been better off, who knows?) No one is doubting that but why try to ignore something that is growing stronger?

should maori be compulsory in schools
no why waste students brains on that rubbish
schools should be for education
if you want maori
go join a club after school