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    Tinorangatiratanga Flag

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    master5o1
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    Re: Tinorangatiratanga Flag

    Post  master5o1 on Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:03 pm

    canterella wrote:Bullshit. The world is progressing and changing. You are giving too much significance to something that is just a colourful piece of cloth to be flown at ceremonies.

    Perhaps, but a progressing and changing world doesn't mean we have to abandon our current flag for a new one.
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    Lynz
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    Re: Tinorangatiratanga Flag

    Post  Lynz on Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:06 pm

    canterella wrote:Bullshit. The world is progressing and changing. You are giving too much significance to something that is just a colourful piece of cloth to be flown at ceremonies.

    Then you really understand little of what a Nation's Flag symbolises. And obviously never worn a National Uniform.
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    master5o1
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    Re: Tinorangatiratanga Flag

    Post  master5o1 on Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:13 pm

    It is true that our flag is our identity.

    When you see the New Zealand flag, you think New Zealand. When you see the USA flag, you think USA. When you think the German flag, you think Germany. Same with UK, Australia, China, Japan. Everywhere.

    The thing about a lot of flags is that they often tell a bit about the nation that they serve as identification for.

    The USA flag:
    The fifty stars on the flag represent the 50 U.S. states and the 13 stripes represent the original thirteen colonies that rebelled against the British monarchy and became the first states in the Union.

    The New Zealand flag:
    The Union Jack shows that we are/were a British colony. The southern cross shows that we're in the southern hemisphere. The difference of that from Australia is the redness of the southern cross, but the similarities of our flags can also become representation of our similarities as nations and people.

    When you see the Swiss flag, if you're an idiot, you think of a hospital Wink
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    Waireka
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    Re: Tinorangatiratanga Flag

    Post  Waireka on Wed Nov 25, 2009 3:20 pm

    I've never thought kiwis were too patriotic, perhaps that's where this attitude to the flag comes from.

    Sad when you think of what it meant to our ancestors.
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    canterella
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    Re: Tinorangatiratanga Flag

    Post  canterella on Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:45 pm

    Lynz wrote:
    canterella wrote:Bullshit. The world is progressing and changing. You are giving too much significance to something that is just a colourful piece of cloth to be flown at ceremonies.

    Then you really understand little of what a Nation's Flag symbolises. And obviously never worn a National Uniform.

    I know what a nation's flag should symbolise. It certainly does not symbolise pride in governments of the day and pride in being considered a disposable cannon fodder by whatever convenient excuse the government churns out. Or whatever the 'patriotic' feeling may mean, which is again influenced by the politics and the government's agenda of the day. I saw horrible crimes being commited in the name of 'patriotism', 'nationhood' and the 'love for the flag' so I can't help it but be cynical of such 'feelings'.
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    Psalter
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    Re: Tinorangatiratanga Flag

    Post  Psalter on Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:44 pm

    canterella wrote:
    Lynz wrote:
    canterella wrote:Bullshit. The world is progressing and changing. You are giving too much significance to something that is just a colourful piece of cloth to be flown at ceremonies.

    Then you really understand little of what a Nation's Flag symbolises. And obviously never worn a National Uniform.

    I know what a nation's flag should symbolise. It certainly does not symbolise pride in governments of the day and pride in being considered a disposable cannon fodder by whatever convenient excuse the government churns out. Or whatever the 'patriotic' feeling may mean, which is again influenced by the politics and the government's agenda of the day. I saw horrible crimes being commited in the name of 'patriotism', 'nationhood' and the 'love for the flag' so I can't help it but be cynical of such 'feelings'.

    You a saffa or Rhodesian?
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    canterella
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    Re: Tinorangatiratanga Flag

    Post  canterella on Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:21 am

    Nope, a Croat.
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    Donkeycheese
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    Re: Tinorangatiratanga Flag

    Post  Donkeycheese on Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:10 am

    canterella wrote:Nope, a Croat.

    I find it racist to label oneself by where they are from

    To truly get an understanding of each other, I think it is more relevant to let everyone know that canterella is female. This provides a higher level of understanding as to why she is so bonkers
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    relict
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    Re: Tinorangatiratanga Flag

    Post  relict on Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:23 pm

    I don't feel strongly about keeping our current flag forever, and I see canterella's point. That certainly does not mean that I don't value the good things of earlier NZers.

    I am neither proud nor ashamed of our history because I had no personal part in it.

    Of those who consider some of the actions of the past to be 'wrong', who can be certain they would not have done the same under the same time and circumstances?
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    master5o1
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    Re: Tinorangatiratanga Flag

    Post  master5o1 on Fri Nov 27, 2009 7:13 pm

    I just don't see any point in changing the flag.
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    frup
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    Re: Tinorangatiratanga Flag

    Post  frup on Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:54 pm

    I hate our current flag.

    It is a flag that most people can't distinguish from the Australian flag. That's great for an emblem of our national identity isn't it. It really adds weight to the argument we should just become a state of Australia.

    It is a flag that only focuses on the British past of some New Zealanders. The percentage of people who can trace British history our would even consider allegiance to the Crown in declining daily. I'm incredibly in favour of becoming a republic, though while we remain part of a constitutional monarchy I am bound to swear allegiance to the crown. I have no problem with that. The Queen is financially a good head of state for us after all.

    The flag is boring and uninspiring. But then again I feel the same about the national anthem as well. I suppose part of the problem is I have a very wide set of experiences and tears don't come easily to my eyes. It takes a lot to overwhelm me, even more to stir feelings about things so mundane.

    Lynz mentioned the flag was what people have gone to war under. That is a silly way to idolise a flag. The Germans went to war under the Nazi Emblem, The confederates under theirs. The US flag changed many times as the Union evolved. Flags are a representation, a way of organising, sorting and classifying people. They represent the feudal heritage of the Western World and selfish wars fought in the name of pride. (Then again the flags of neutral countries do evoke kind sentiments for me)

    For New Zealand in the World Wars we fought for Britain. We fought to pay back our dues and out of a feeling of obligation. We fought out of fear; the need to ensure our own protection. There was a misguided atmosphere of honour and chivalry but there is no honour in war. A hero would fight for a cause, not for glory or obligation. At the time world war 2 begun, the reasons why the war is justified today were unknown.

    As for a silver fern flag, what a way to show what a retarded country this is. It is a symbol of our sporting history. To me it represents everything wrong with New Zealand: Tall Poppy syndrome. As far as the All Blacks go, wow, we have the 1905 invincibles and the 1987 world cup. We have an image of being the best rugby team but really we are pretty average. The whole nation is perceived as pouring their heart and soul in the Rugby, a sport that internationally has a low profile. To me having a silver fern flag would just show how inadequate and misguided this poor little nation can be at times.

    I like the Maori flag. I'm not going to call it by it's proper name because quite frankly, that is all it will be known as in New Zealand if it became the official flag. Increasingly I find the vast majority of the population intolerant, backwards and sensationalist. There is no way that you are going to convince all the hicks to accept this. I also think they would act far more extremely than Maori do. The symbolism behind the flag is interesting, though not exactly fitting to the wider New Zealand population. This nation is plagued by ethnic separation too, on racial lines a New Zealand flag would have to represent diversity, perhaps a flag with a black bottom, and a white top with a yellow tidal wave, it seems that is how New Zealanders view these kinds of things.

    I like 5o1's idea of a black flag with white southern cross. It's simple and unique, though I'd like to see someone retroactively add symbolism to it. I suppose I could accept the idea of location, the south pacific, the sea faring history that both Maori and Dutch/English used to discover NZ. It will really suit when the population booms and our poor bureaucratic system can't cut red tape to sort out power stations. Razz

    But whatever they do, don't let retarded artists and social pansies design a new flag. Let those in the pragmatic industries such as engineering do it. They make things work and for the large part are the only people of value to society. The rest can keep sucking on eggs.

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    Re: Tinorangatiratanga Flag

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