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Diaz
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    Sterilise underclass to stop child abuse - Micael Laws

    Waireka
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    Post  Waireka Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:20 am

    Wanganui Mayor Michael Laws says giving the "underclass" money to be sterilised will address our child abuse problem.

    Critics last night labelled the suggestion "totalitarian", "draconian" and "reprehensible", and questioned his appropriateness as a city leader.

    Mr Laws said the children of beneficiaries, drug addicts and criminals had little chance in life. He offered his observations after he was approached for comment on the death of two-year-old Wanganui boy Karl Perigo-Check, the son of a convicted murderer and gang member.

    "If we gave $10,000 to certain people and said 'we'll voluntarily sterilise you' then all of society would be better off. There'd be less dead children and less social problems.

    "Do we really expect these children to become doctors or brain surgeons?"

    Child Poverty Action Group director Janfrie Wakim said she was stunned by the comments. "I just find it such a disgraceful attitude. It's hard to comprehend that an intelligent man who's leading a city is making such reprehensible suggestions."

    Barnardos New Zealand chief executive Murray Edridge said the comments were part of a pattern of provocative comments from Mr Laws designed to draw attention. "I can't believe that he actually believes this."

    Any Kiwi child genuinely could become a doctor or brain surgeon – as long as there was community support for them, he said.

    Children's Commissioner John Angus said Mr Laws' comments were unrealistic and unhelpful. "Most of the information that I have seen suggests that it is quite hard to predict specific family situations where there might be problems."

    He said many children who grew up on benefits became good citizens. Wider family members often ensured children were well cared for if their parents suffered from substance abuse or mental illness.

    Mr Laws also said "liberal methods" of combating child abuse had failed. He said anti-smacking legislation had not worked because at least 19 children had been murdered by their family since it was passed in 2007.

    "It was meant to be conducive to stopping child abuse in the country but no piece of legislation will stop the underclass in New Zealand from beating, battering and killing their children."

    The bill's sponsor, Green MP Sue Bradford, said no-one had claimed the legislation would eradicate child abuse.

    She said Mr Laws' proposed solution was draconian and totalitarian and would never be considered by Parliament. "People are trying their best to change what has been many generations of violence but a lot of that will need more resourcing."

    Karl Perigo-Check was the son of Karl Check, a Mongrel Mob member who was convicted of murdering Wanganui toddler Jhia Te Tua, the daughter of a Black Power member, by organising a drive-by shooting. He is serving life imprisonment with a minimum non-parole period of 15 years.

    A service was held to farewell the boy yesterday.
    Waireka
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    Post  Waireka Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:33 am

    Okay, so Laws is still a complete drop kick, but his idea (watered down) has merits in my eyes.

    Rather than sterilisation, remove the DPB and make a payment for mothers everytime they take 'the contraceptive injection' which is shared over the 3 month period in weekly payments (other contraceptive methods can be included as I've been told the injection isn't fun, but the method must be administrated by a health professional not the recipient).

    The point being that these women wont reproduce (ideally) whilst relying on social welfare.

    Thus discouraging 'Career Beneficiaries'.

    As for children being raised on DPB's not ammounting to much (like Brain Surgeons):

    My mother was on the DPB for a significant part of my childhood, at most stages it was supplemented by part time minimum wage work (declared). We weren't born whilst she was claiming any social welfare, circumstance took her to the DPB after Dad bailed.

    I walked out of high school with several awards for being top in subjects and scholarships (which I never used) at the end of year 13.
    My brother is studying Communications at Vic Uni and is a NZ rowing representative.
    My littlest brother is coasting through school, doing very well and will represent NZ in rowing too it seems.

    Certainly by no means "Brain Surgeons", but the potential was there, unfortunately none of us had the desire to slice up someones brain, but we're all destined to not be another drain on society.
    Waireka
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    Post  Waireka Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:16 pm

    By the way, didn't out Prime Minister grow up the son of a beneficiary?
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    Post  superarmy Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:39 pm

    Well this is an example of the hopeless sound-bite orientated media. When you read it in detail, as you said Wai, it has merits. But any idea about this sort of hands-on social engineering (which I hate) really needs to be thought through by people who know what they are talking about, a.k.a not politicians.


    Rather than sterilisation, remove the DPB and make a payment for mothers everytime they take 'the contraceptive injection' which is shared over the 3 month period in weekly payments (other contraceptive methods can be included as I've been told the injection isn't fun, but the method must be administrated by a health professional not the recipient).


    I see no problem with this in general. But it raises the question of what the threshold is. Just having 1 child would qualify from this? It's mindnumbling complex, all the permeatations and combinations of outcomes and possibilities of various circumstances need to be considered. Shocked
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    Post  Diaz Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:15 pm

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    Last edited by Diaz on Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
    Waireka
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    Post  Waireka Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:35 pm

    What Laws suggests isn't forced sterilisation, neither is what I've suggested (although it does apply pressure to temporarily have contraception).

    For my idea it is to not reproduce whilst dependant on welfare. I'm pretty sure that until your children are no longer pre-schoolers there is no pressure to actively seek employment from WINZ (which is absolutely fine IMO), but when a woman continues to reproduce whilst receiving the DPB she is being hugely irresponsible.

    The current system doesn't encourage improvement to ones situation.

    Women are often having children with 'boyfriends' who can't officially reside with them, due to this impacting on their DPB income.
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    Post  Psalter Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:31 pm

    Here's an idea, make the pill financially viable to people... now, Erin and I haven't qualified for the community services card for quite some time... apparently, $21,000 is enough to support a person. But anyway, one of our expenses is (around) $60 for her pill... every three months (or something, I don't really pay attention) but she also has to go to the doctor which costs another $60.

    She is a taxpayer at the moment... that could change rapidly if she decided that we could do with the extra $500 a year... which we could... in fact, that's exactly the amount we dropped into debt this year (excl. student loan)
    Waireka
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    Post  Waireka Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:46 pm

    Psalter wrote:Here's an idea, make the pill financially viable to people... now, Erin and I haven't qualified for the community services card for quite some time... apparently, $21,000 is enough to support a person. But anyway, one of our expenses is (around) $60 for her pill... every three months (or something, I don't really pay attention) but she also has to go to the doctor which costs another $60.

    She is a taxpayer at the moment... that could change rapidly if she decided that we could do with the extra $500 a year... which we could... in fact, that's exactly the amount we dropped into debt this year (excl. student loan)

    Depending on which pill she takes.

    The basic ones are covered by the tax payer mainly.
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    Post  the distant one Fri Oct 30, 2009 7:58 pm

    Waireka wrote:
    Psalter wrote:Here's an idea, make the pill financially viable to people... now, Erin and I haven't qualified for the community services card for quite some time... apparently, $21,000 is enough to support a person. But anyway, one of our expenses is (around) $60 for her pill... every three months (or something, I don't really pay attention) but she also has to go to the doctor which costs another $60.

    She is a taxpayer at the moment... that could change rapidly if she decided that we could do with the extra $500 a year... which we could... in fact, that's exactly the amount we dropped into debt this year (excl. student loan)

    Depending on which pill she takes.

    The basic ones are covered by the tax payer mainly.

    rach pays around $60 each round too...basic ones are $3 but you still pay $60 to see the Dr.
    Waireka
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    Post  Waireka Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:08 pm

    the distant one wrote:
    Waireka wrote:
    Psalter wrote:Here's an idea, make the pill financially viable to people... now, Erin and I haven't qualified for the community services card for quite some time... apparently, $21,000 is enough to support a person. But anyway, one of our expenses is (around) $60 for her pill... every three months (or something, I don't really pay attention) but she also has to go to the doctor which costs another $60.

    She is a taxpayer at the moment... that could change rapidly if she decided that we could do with the extra $500 a year... which we could... in fact, that's exactly the amount we dropped into debt this year (excl. student loan)

    Depending on which pill she takes.

    The basic ones are covered by the tax payer mainly.

    rach pays around $60 each round too...basic ones are $3 but you still pay $60 to see the Dr.

    FPA's free still? I'm not sure, it has been 6 years since I last got the pill.
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    Post  Diaz Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:28 pm

    Blank


    Last edited by Diaz on Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  ChelseaT Sat Oct 31, 2009 9:20 am

    Family planning doesn't charge those under 22 or those with a CSC. Otherwise it's $22.50. And the prescription charge is $3. You can get 6 months worth at a time and although the website says you can get a max of 48 condoms, my friend got 108 last time she went (she's an RA, not a sluz).
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    Post  master5o1 Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:01 pm

    Waireka wrote:
    the distant one wrote:
    Waireka wrote:
    Psalter wrote:Here's an idea, make the pill financially viable to people... now, Erin and I haven't qualified for the community services card for quite some time... apparently, $21,000 is enough to support a person. But anyway, one of our expenses is (around) $60 for her pill... every three months (or something, I don't really pay attention) but she also has to go to the doctor which costs another $60.

    She is a taxpayer at the moment... that could change rapidly if she decided that we could do with the extra $500 a year... which we could... in fact, that's exactly the amount we dropped into debt this year (excl. student loan)

    Depending on which pill she takes.

    The basic ones are covered by the tax payer mainly.

    rach pays around $60 each round too...basic ones are $3 but you still pay $60 to see the Dr.

    FPA's free still? I'm not sure, it has been 6 years since I last got the pill.


    Now I know why you're pregnant Very Happy
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    Post  the distant one Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:20 pm

    FPA charges pver 22yr olds to see dr or nurse. and there is a 6-8 week waiting list for the dr. Around $25.

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