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The Underworld Of Lightly (& Logically) Moderated Discussion & Debate


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canterella
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master5o1
Bardan
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    Eddison Hour- UnJammed

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    Post  Bardan Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:28 pm

    I don't think I got a fair shake on Sunrise yesterday morning so I've created this response.


    The Sunrise clip is also on youtube or you can find it on the TV3 webpage.
    master5o1
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    Post  master5o1 Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:32 pm

    Thank you for providing everyone some epic lulz.
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    Post  ____ Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:34 pm

    Thank you for unintentionally birthing a new meme.
    ChelseaT
    ChelseaT
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    Post  ChelseaT Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:35 pm

    I laughed. I laughed until I cried. I'm not 100% certain but I may have peed a little also.
    woody67
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    Post  woody67 Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:26 pm

    Oh Barden ....please stop...you were owned , you are not ready to put your ideas across in any kind of media, I strongly suggest you spend some time at toastmasters....if they still exist.
    canterella
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    Post  canterella Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:19 pm

    Another fail. Edison's (not Eddison's)work is unfairly celebrated at the expense of Nikola Tesla's genius. Tesla is the inventor of the AC power system, the one we use today.
    master5o1
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    Post  master5o1 Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:30 pm

    canterella wrote:Another fail. Edison's (not Eddison's)work is unfairly celebrated at the expense of Nikola Tesla's genius. Tesla is the inventor of the AC power system, the one we use today.


    Edison was in favour of DC.
    Westinghouse was in favour of AC.
    Concepts from Tesla were involved.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current#History

    Edison apparently used the Electric Chair as an argument against AC, saying that it is far to dangerous to use as it can kill.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Chair#History
    Lynz
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    Post  Lynz Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:40 pm

    You didn't get a fair shake? Laughing Laughing Laughing

    That's because you're dumber than Dream_Dickhead. Who apparently now derides ACT as a left wing political entity. Which, from memory, he supported, or didn't, depending on how the debate was going, prior to the last election. Omniscience, a quality he claims, oft times fails him. I near pissed me pants how he tried to defend your inanity on the tele.

    Just because you are going to University, does not, ipso facto, make you cleverer than everyone else. Or, in fact, clever at all.

    Stick to a pseudo science like economics sonny. Cause you're fucking pig ignorant on the real stuff.

    And big words do not make a flawed argument more convincing.

    I hate modernism's, but you were owned.
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    Nymph
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    Post  ____ Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:52 pm

    Eddison Hour- UnJammed 26391_113975085283600_100000133286075_283830_989089_n
    Pervach
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    Post  Pervach Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:15 pm

    There are good arguments that adaptation is preferable to rationing, but that was definitely not one of them.
    master5o1
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    Post  master5o1 Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:33 pm

    Eddison Hour- UnJammed 2710

    Eddison Hour- UnJammed Yo-oli10
    Psalter
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    Post  Psalter Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:36 pm

    Pervach wrote:There are good arguments that adaptation is preferable to rationing, but that was definitely not one of them.

    Oh, I do heartily believe that we should be using R&D for the benefit of the planet... but seriously, earth hour is about symbolism not a short-term reduction in waste.
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    Post  Pervach Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:45 pm

    Psalter wrote:
    Pervach wrote:There are good arguments that adaptation is preferable to rationing, but that was definitely not one of them.

    Oh, I do heartily believe that we should be using R&D for the benefit of the planet... but seriously, earth hour is about symbolism not a short-term reduction in waste.
    Or, more specifically, anti-adaptationist symbolism. Yes, it does succeed in its aim to promote anti-adaptationism. Are you arguing that promoting something futile is worthwhile simply because it promotes something futile? Or are you claiming that anti-adaptationism itself isn't futile?
    Psalter
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    Post  Psalter Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:52 pm

    No, I am arguing that earth-hour doesn't promote anti-adaptionism, I am saying that it promotes an awareness of our currently excessive and wasteful use of resources.

    Don't place words in my mouth/fingers.

    That's a Gilesian approach.
    master5o1
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    Post  master5o1 Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:06 pm

    Psalter wrote:That's a Gilesian approach.


    Awesome.
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    Post  Pervach Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:39 pm

    Psalter wrote:No, I am arguing that earth-hour doesn't promote anti-adaptionism, I am saying that it promotes an awareness of our currently excessive and wasteful use of resources.

    Don't place words in my mouth/fingers.

    That's a Gilesian approach.
    The point still stands, which is that this is an argument about whether or not it is futile to use less resources, not about whether earth hour is just "symbolism" or not.
    Bardan
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    Post  Bardan Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:54 pm

    Psalter wrote:
    Pervach wrote:There are good arguments that adaptation is preferable to rationing, but that was definitely not one of them.

    Oh, I do heartily believe that we should be using R&D for the benefit of the planet... but seriously, earth hour is about symbolism not a short-term reduction in waste.

    This argument alternates between two things. Firstly- is it a good symbol? Secondly- does it raise awareness? On Sunrise and elsewhere I've been talking of nothing but these two elements.

    On symbolism, as I've said elsewhere, it failes on 3 fun-loving levels. Because, it cannot symbolise something that the facts of the event are opposed to. It cannot symbolise thrift and savings when it actually was an event of wastage. More energy resources (not to mention human capital) was squandered by Earth Hour than if it had never occured.

    If a vulture cannot replace a dove and a T-shirt cannot replace the NZ Flag then symbols cannot be attributed willy-nilly.

    Ya just can't call a garbage dump a symbol of landscaping; Ya just can't call EArth Hour a symbol of energy-consciousness

    Symbolic FAIL
    Psalter
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    Post  Psalter Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:57 pm

    Bardan wrote:
    Psalter wrote:
    Pervach wrote:There are good arguments that adaptation is preferable to rationing, but that was definitely not one of them.

    Oh, I do heartily believe that we should be using R&D for the benefit of the planet... but seriously, earth hour is about symbolism not a short-term reduction in waste.

    This argument alternates between two things. Firstly- is it a good symbol? Secondly- does it raise awareness? On Sunrise and elsewhere I've been talking of nothing but these two elements.

    On symbolism, as I've said elsewhere, it failes on 3 fun-loving levels. Because, it cannot symbolise something that the facts of the event are opposed to. It cannot symbolise thrift and savings when it actually was an event of wastage. More energy resources (not to mention human capital) was squandered by Earth Hour than if it had never occured.

    If a vulture cannot replace a dove and a T-shirt cannot replace the NZ Flag then symbols cannot be attributed willy-nilly.

    Ya just can't call a garbage dump a symbol of landscaping; Ya just can't call EArth Hour a symbol of energy-consciousness

    Symbolic FAIL

    Okay, tell you what... I will admit that it did not adequately represent the cause that it purported to if you will prove to me that during earth-hour, more resources were used.

    Deal?
    Psalter
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    Post  Psalter Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:00 pm

    Pervach wrote:
    Psalter wrote:No, I am arguing that earth-hour doesn't promote anti-adaptionism, I am saying that it promotes an awareness of our currently excessive and wasteful use of resources.

    Don't place words in my mouth/fingers.

    That's a Gilesian approach.
    The point still stands, which is that this is an argument about whether or not it is futile to use less resources, not about whether earth hour is just "symbolism" or not.

    So, let me just get this straight... you and Bardan believe that more responsible use of resources is not necessary in the progression and survival of humanity?
    Pervach
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    Post  Pervach Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:22 pm

    Psalter wrote:
    Pervach wrote:
    Psalter wrote:No, I am arguing that earth-hour doesn't promote anti-adaptionism, I am saying that it promotes an awareness of our currently excessive and wasteful use of resources.

    Don't place words in my mouth/fingers.

    That's a Gilesian approach.
    The point still stands, which is that this is an argument about whether or not it is futile to use less resources, not about whether earth hour is just "symbolism" or not.

    So, let me just get this straight... you and Bardan believe that more responsible use of resources is not necessary in the progression and survival of humanity?
    Bardan (supposedly) and I believe that the most responsible use of resources, whatever that may be, involves USING the resource. That you don't adapt to a changing environment by... intentionally not making use of helpful things that are available.
    master5o1
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    Post  master5o1 Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:29 pm

    Pervach wrote:
    Psalter wrote:
    Pervach wrote:
    Psalter wrote:No, I am arguing that earth-hour doesn't promote anti-adaptionism, I am saying that it promotes an awareness of our currently excessive and wasteful use of resources.

    Don't place words in my mouth/fingers.

    That's a Gilesian approach.
    The point still stands, which is that this is an argument about whether or not it is futile to use less resources, not about whether earth hour is just "symbolism" or not.

    So, let me just get this straight... you and Bardan believe that more responsible use of resources is not necessary in the progression and survival of humanity?
    Bardan (supposedly) and I believe that the most responsible use of resources, whatever that may be, involves USING the resource. That you don't adapt to a changing environment by... intentionally not making use of helpful things that are available.

    I would tend to agree when put that way.
    Psalter
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    River-God


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    Post  Psalter Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:38 pm

    master5o1 wrote:
    Pervach wrote:
    Psalter wrote:
    Pervach wrote:
    Psalter wrote:No, I am arguing that earth-hour doesn't promote anti-adaptionism, I am saying that it promotes an awareness of our currently excessive and wasteful use of resources.

    Don't place words in my mouth/fingers.

    That's a Gilesian approach.
    The point still stands, which is that this is an argument about whether or not it is futile to use less resources, not about whether earth hour is just "symbolism" or not.

    So, let me just get this straight... you and Bardan believe that more responsible use of resources is not necessary in the progression and survival of humanity?
    Bardan (supposedly) and I believe that the most responsible use of resources, whatever that may be, involves USING the resource. That you don't adapt to a changing environment by... intentionally not making use of helpful things that are available.

    I would tend to agree when put that way.

    So, the responsible thing to do would be to encourage people not to reduce their use of petrochemical resources?
    Pervach
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    Post  Pervach Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:49 pm

    Psalter wrote:
    master5o1 wrote:
    Pervach wrote:
    Psalter wrote:
    Pervach wrote:
    Psalter wrote:No, I am arguing that earth-hour doesn't promote anti-adaptionism, I am saying that it promotes an awareness of our currently excessive and wasteful use of resources.

    Don't place words in my mouth/fingers.

    That's a Gilesian approach.
    The point still stands, which is that this is an argument about whether or not it is futile to use less resources, not about whether earth hour is just "symbolism" or not.

    So, let me just get this straight... you and Bardan believe that more responsible use of resources is not necessary in the progression and survival of humanity?
    Bardan (supposedly) and I believe that the most responsible use of resources, whatever that may be, involves USING the resource. That you don't adapt to a changing environment by... intentionally not making use of helpful things that are available.

    I would tend to agree when put that way.

    So, the responsible thing to do would be to encourage people not to reduce their use of petrochemical resources?
    either "the responsible thing to do would be not to encourage people to reduce their use of petrochemical resources, except through natural market prices" or "the responsible thing to do would be to encourage people not to reduce their use of petrochemical resources just for the sake of it" would be bang on the money, imo.
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    Post  Psalter Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:54 pm

    Pervach wrote:
    either "the responsible thing to do would be not to encourage people to reduce their use of petrochemical resources, except through natural market prices" or "the responsible thing to do would be to encourage people not to reduce their use of petrochemical resources just for the sake of it" would be bang on the money, imo.

    At the detriment of the planet, when more efficient and more responsible alternatives are available?
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    Post  Pervach Wed Mar 31, 2010 12:10 am

    Psalter wrote:At the detriment of the planet, when more efficient and more responsible alternatives are available?
    I would say "To the benefit of humanity, despite the planet changing."

    Now we get to the point where our thinking initially diverges. I would say "Humanity benefits, therefore it is a better world for humanity", whereas you might say "The planet is changing from how it was in 1750, and as "Nature" is the sole, intrinsic value, any change from this state is detrimental to "the planet", Therefore we must stop humanity" (i daresay not to that extent, but the thinking is similar)

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