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    When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

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    Psalter
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    When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  Psalter on Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:37 pm

    Just wondering... no particular reason. Cool
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    master5o1
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  master5o1 on Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:05 am

    Only when I do it. My assassination fees are really high.
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    relict
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  relict on Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:10 am

    For me: never.

    For others, I don't know.

    I cannot say it is wrong for a police officer to kill someone in order to save other people's lives. That is the system we have chosen, and it is perhaps the best system under the circumstances, even though it has some problems.

    For example, assuming it's fine to kill in order to save, why not also justify torture, or meeting the demands of any kidnapper or terrorist? Also, some threaten to kill without intention to follow through, so responding to the risk they create by eliminating them may save no lives.

    I guess it basically comes down whether you believe that 'the end justifies the means'.
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    canterella
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  canterella on Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:48 am

    self-defence?

    But I must admit that sometimes I think I would be capable of killing someone who killed my children/husband, but I don't know, I suppose you have to be in that situation to know exactly what would you do. I know it doesn't make one any better than the perp, but I probably wouldn't care.
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    Summoner
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  Summoner on Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:48 am

    Self defence


    or taking one life that will save a thousand (yes, I watched "wanted" too)

    I know I would never intentionally walk out my front door and just randomly go kill people but I can't say that I would never kill anyone because circumstances could call for it.

    I will admit, I do have evil thoughts when people hurt the people I love or care about so who knows how far I would go if someone really hurt (or killed) the people I love and care about.


    Last edited by Summoner on Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:50 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : for a second there I thought I was American and spelt defence wrong.)
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    relict
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  relict on Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:34 pm

    canterella wrote:sometimes I think I would be capable of killing

    (yes, I realise the quote is incomplete and out of context)

    Summoner wrote:I can't say that I would never kill anyone because circumstances could call for it.

    Every [able] human is capable of killing. That sounds redundant but I was trying to make exception for perhaps a person with quadriplegia or something. What I mean is there are extreme circumstances that can result in people who believe 100% that they never would/could kill someone because they believe it is wrong, turning into someone who even enjoys killing. It happened in the Hutu-Tutsi conflict (Rwanda) when those not killing were considered to be traitors unless they joined in. Some people not wanting to would often kill one to save their own life, until one wasn't enough, but the second didn't seem as bad ... etc ... and eventually they became willing and happy to kill.
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    canterella
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  canterella on Sat Nov 14, 2009 7:49 pm

    relict wrote:
    canterella wrote:sometimes I think I would be capable of killing

    (yes, I realise the quote is incomplete and out of context)

    Summoner wrote:I can't say that I would never kill anyone because circumstances could call for it.

    Every [able] human is capable of killing. That sounds redundant but I was trying to make exception for perhaps a person with quadriplegia or something. What I mean is there are extreme circumstances that can result in people who believe 100% that they never would/could kill someone because they believe it is wrong, turning into someone who even enjoys killing. It happened in the Hutu-Tutsi conflict (Rwanda) when those not killing were considered to be traitors unless they joined in. Some people not wanting to would often kill one to save their own life, until one wasn't enough, but the second didn't seem as bad ... etc ... and eventually they became willing and happy to kill.

    That's another generalisation. If that was true, we would have way more serial killers than we've actually have in our prisons. Many people kill in a heated rage, jealousy, hate or any other highly emotional state, it happens once in their life and they may regret it for the rest of their lives. They didn't go on to enjoy in the act of killing. I would say that they greatly outnumber the ones who kill for sheer pleasure.
    Of course in extreme situations such as wars the circumstances are totally different so the behaviours become extreme as well.
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    relict
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  relict on Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:06 pm

    canterella wrote:
    relict wrote:Every [able] human is capable of killing.

    That's another generalisation.

    But I am not saying that given the same extreme circumstances in which some people kill (when they've spent their previous life believing they never would), that everyone would. Some have something against killing that is stronger than, for example, their sense of self-preservation. I think many people wouldn't know which group they fit into, though, until they were in the circumstances.
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    dabiarch
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  dabiarch on Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:11 am

    i believe i would be able to kill in a situation of aided suicide if the person was terminally ill and suffering great agony.......

    other than that i really don't think i could kill anyone......but who knows if i was upset or angry enough.....i do know that it would not be a deliberate act.
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    the distant one
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  the distant one on Sun Nov 15, 2009 10:47 am

    is it right to kill someone? is more the question


    if 1 life saves many more then yes.

    retribution killing? is the sticking point. do we kill someone cause they have done something horrific? I would say lots of people wouldnt shed a tear or feel bad if people like Graheme Burton got a lead bullet or Nia Glassies killers got one either. but is it right???? hmmmmm I dont know. I will sit and stroke my pondering goatee for abit
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    Summoner
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  Summoner on Sun Nov 15, 2009 11:23 am

    relict wrote:
    canterella wrote:sometimes I think I would be capable of killing

    (yes, I realise the quote is incomplete and out of context)

    Summoner wrote:I can't say that I would never kill anyone because circumstances could call for it.

    Every [able] human is capable of killing. That sounds redundant but I was trying to make exception for perhaps a person with quadriplegia or something. What I mean is there are extreme circumstances that can result in people who believe 100% that they never would/could kill someone because they believe it is wrong, turning into someone who even enjoys killing. It happened in the Hutu-Tutsi conflict (Rwanda) when those not killing were considered to be traitors unless they joined in. Some people not wanting to would often kill one to save their own life, until one wasn't enough, but the second didn't seem as bad ... etc ... and eventually they became willing and happy to kill.


    Yes, every human is capable of killing... I never said they weren't... I said I can't say that I would never kill... or was that not understandable?

    I would not, however, eventually take pleasure in killing people because I was forced to do so... I would possibly end up taking my own life out of pure insanity if forced to kill a second or third human. but then again as was said before you will never know until you are in that situation.
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    relict
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  relict on Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:36 pm

    I wasn't disagreeing with you, Summoner.

    Diaz
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  Diaz on Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:52 pm

    Blank


    Last edited by Diaz on Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    relict
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  relict on Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:49 am

    Diaz wrote:Whether it's the right thing to do to kill someone is context dependent. If it's in the situation of a police officer charged with keeping the peace and they shoot down a person on the rampage with a gun who has already killed or injured others it would be justifiable for utilitarian reasons, in other situations it's not.

    Was that an example of a justifiable context, or the only justifiable situation?

    Since there are cultural differences in what is deemed to be 'right', are there any cultural differences (in addition to context differences) in when it is justifiable to kill? For example, what if there were a country were 100% of the population wanted euthanasia to be legal within that country, for those under particular circumstances? Or a country where everyone, or no one, wanted war to be used a solution to some problems?


    Last edited by relict on Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

    Diaz
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  Diaz on Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:40 pm

    Blank


    Last edited by Diaz on Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    ChelseaT
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  ChelseaT on Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:51 am

    Euthenasia. Not the only case, but one I agree with.
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    superarmy
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  superarmy on Wed Nov 18, 2009 11:46 am

    There are obvious straight forward situations. But one can come up with quite the dilema's. Say there is a virus which is highly contagious, 100% mortality rate. Only two people have it, they are quarantined in two hospital rooms, lets say they are a 17 year old girl and her 16 year old boy friend, scholarship students, model to the community. Would it be right to kill them in order to prevent the destruction of humanity. A variant on the torture dilema.

    There are numeours black and white situations for this dilema, and numerous grey ones. As metioned above. context is everything.
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    relict
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  relict on Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:53 pm

    I wouldn't.

    superarmy wrote:Say there is a virus ...

    Since they are quarantined, and the virus has a 100% mortality rate, I at first assumed you must surely be speaking of euthanasia. But euthanasia is usually justified (or attempted to be so) under the pretext of relieving the suffering of the ones to be killed. In this case, you haven't mentioned this motive, but I assume it is instead to reduce the risk to the medical staff attending to their needs (and those that the staff come in contact with). So I'm not sure what type of killing it would be called.

    But there is no such thing as an absolute 100% mortality rate unless everyone is dead already. The mortalilty rate can be 100% in that 500,000,000 people out of 500,000,000 infected have died, but you never know if the 500,000,001st person is going to recover naturally, or whether an effective treatment will be found for them.

    Yeah, yeah, I know the example was just to make a general point about contect, dilemmas etc.

    Diaz
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  Diaz on Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:39 pm

    Blank


    Last edited by Diaz on Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Donkeycheese
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  Donkeycheese on Thu Nov 19, 2009 2:52 pm

    whenever she uses teeth


    time to die!!
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    superarmy
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  superarmy on Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:10 pm

    Diaz wrote:
    superarmy wrote:There are obvious straight forward situations. But one can come up with quite the dilema's. Say there is a virus which is highly contagious, 100% mortality rate. Only two people have it, they are quarantined in two hospital rooms, lets say they are a 17 year old girl and her 16 year old boy friend, scholarship students, model to the community. Would it be right to kill them in order to prevent the destruction of humanity. A variant on the torture dilema.

    There are numeours black and white situations for this dilema, and numerous grey ones. As metioned above. context is everything.

    Well if I was to take the example literally, if it's 100% mortality it isn't necessary to kill them but just treat them in isolation as they do for severe high-mortality illnesses like Ebola and work to prevent any further transmission. We've had enough experience with emerging diseases to not have to go to the step of culling those who are infected and in fact it's better in many respects to simply watch and wait so that the natural course and cause of the disease can be studied. This scenario doesn't really fall into Euthanasia, it's more pointing towards use of utilitarian ethics and doing the best for the most even if it means what might normally be deemed an unacceptable choice being made. The thing is decisions similar to this can be made in medicine, like sometimes very expensive (but effective) medical treatments might not be made available for some conditions. The thing is though in practice there usually is an alternative available to the person that might benefit from the very expensive treatment, so it's often that there are nuances there that mitigate the situation and mean that it's not strictly a either/or proposition of being treated or not.

    As for Euthanasia, unfortunately the pretext of suffering is a false dichotomy where the argument is set up either Euthanasia OR horrible suffering death. In practice, there is a third option which is the provision of palliative care which neither shortens or lengthens life and aims simply to relieve suffering at the end of life.

    I wasn't aware I was addressing the issue of euthanasia, it was a topic question related thing. It is, as you said, a very utilitarian ethics based example. And if we are talking about euthansia, I have no issue with it being legalized, but I'll be damned if you ever catch me doing it. Let it be up to the individual, but then it comes in to the idea of whether or not they can be deemed to be in a state to make sound judgements..... there is no simple answer.
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    metcalfj
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  metcalfj on Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:46 pm

    When someone is actually too stupid to function within society, they should be kindly 'smacked' to death by loving parent-like government agents.
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    relict
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  relict on Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:57 pm

    Laughing
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    master5o1
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    Re: When, if ever, is it the "right thing" to kill someone?

    Post  master5o1 on Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:41 pm

    metcalfj wrote:When someone is actually too stupid to function within society, they should be kindly 'smacked' to death by loving parent-like government agents.


    Do you know who else played with eugenics?

    HITLER!

    But I like Hitler, he's exactly 100 years older than me.

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