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    Thoughts on ANZAC day hijacked from Smile Cemetery.

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    Psalter
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    Re: Thoughts on ANZAC day hijacked from Smile Cemetery.

    Post  Psalter on Mon May 04, 2009 5:26 pm

    superarmy wrote:

    The invasion of Austria was seen by many to be wrong... yet Germans held the view that Austria was stolen from them in the first place. The right of it depends on where you sit. The moral shift that has, over 5 centuries, shaped a world with very few slaves is more evidence of moral relativity.

    Somewhat of a bad example. Austria was annexed with very little issues. The Czechoslovakian issue of the Sudetenland would be a better example.

    Kind of the point there chief.
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    superarmy
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    Re: Thoughts on ANZAC day hijacked from Smile Cemetery.

    Post  superarmy on Mon May 04, 2009 5:32 pm

    But seen by many as wrong?

    Sure it violated the Treaty of Versailles. But many were coming round to the idea it was unjust, including the allies. It was a mutual beneficial annexation, with zero external outcry, both during the time and afterwards.

    The issue of the Sudetenland was somewhat more of a arguable point of both sides. Both were hotly contested, many countries took issues with this. It is still debatable today

    Diaz
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    Re: Thoughts on ANZAC day hijacked from Smile Cemetery.

    Post  Diaz on Tue May 05, 2009 12:20 am

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    Last edited by Diaz on Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Thoughts on ANZAC day hijacked from Smile Cemetery.

    Post  Psalter on Sat May 09, 2009 11:30 am

    Diaz wrote:

    As I've said before, I agree that what is considered moral can change over time but I think that example more supports my ideas than detracts from them. Rather than coming from a relativistic view point that led to some people being held in unconsenting servitude to others because they were considered 'savages' and less than full human beings or simply were born into that position in life, the universal principles of individual freedoms and liberty that were developed during the enlightenment have become the general principles by which society can judge what is moral. Mutual understanding of principles of human rights mean that people in most countries in the world would agree that slavery is morally wrong, and of what is left of the practice continued efforts are made to stamp it out. Otherwise we'd still be arguing whether it was right or wrong.

    Well played.

    Okay, I will concede that there are norm referenced rights and wrongs that (due to the quasi-unification of the global society)can be considered right or wrong and still be objective. However, I maintain that most "wrongs" and most "rights" belong to the relativistic view point.

    I now think that it would be stupid of me to argue against universal truth and use absolutes... Which is kind of what I've been doing.

    Doh.

    Diaz
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    Re: Thoughts on ANZAC day hijacked from Smile Cemetery.

    Post  Diaz on Sat May 09, 2009 8:28 pm

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    Last edited by Diaz on Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Thoughts on ANZAC day hijacked from Smile Cemetery.

    Post  Psalter on Sat May 09, 2009 10:09 pm

    Diaz wrote:I'm happy to have got that point across.

    I do agree that morals can often be culturally or religiously based, but when this happens it can lead to absurdities when compared with judging right or wrong using objective and universal norms that have developed - like with slavery, it could be argued that emancipationists were morally 'wrong' because they went against the (then) norm of slave owning. The problem with the relativistic stance is that you then cannot make legitimate comparisons of cultural or religious norms as that requires that objective or universal norms be used, leading to the situation where it's not even possible to determine 'right' or 'wrong' at all.

    Well, now that I have been trounced life will be boring again.

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    Re: Thoughts on ANZAC day hijacked from Smile Cemetery.

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